Fire Trucks ticketed by Red Light Cameras

[Jefferson Firefighters]

With the introduction of red light cameras, Interim Superintendent Saunders threatened disciplinary action and enforcement of driving regulations without considering minimum safe stopping distances as required by IFSTA fire apparatus guidelines. Many of our apparatus are not designed for legal street use and require extended safe stopping distances due to their weight and length. The administration refuses to have their traffic engineering department extend the time it takes for a green light to change to red so that heavy and lengthy fire trucks can safely pass through an intersection. Firefighters have been forced to pay tickets for running red lights because the red light camera took the picture before the back end of the fire truck could pass through the intersection.

[Unregistered]

quite crying everyones getting them

[Jefferson Firefighters]

Guest,

<O:p</O:p
Firefighters are not "crying" about getting traffic tickets if they are deserved. However they are not responsible for the design of the trucks they are assigned to drive on our public streets. The stopping time and distance because of the length and weight of the truck, equipment and water it carries is greatly increased opposed to a regular passenger vehicle.
Firefighters are trained not to drive fire trucks in an unsafe manner due to length and weight of the truck. If a fire truck is stopped in too short of a distance the weight transfer can cause the firefighter to lose control of the truck causing the fire truck to skid and/or overturn. An out of control (skidding) fire truck can not only endanger the life of the firefighters onboard but the citizens that are traveling near or as oncoming traffic when traveling through intersections.
When this issue was first raised firefighters were told that the traffic engineering department acknowledged that the red lights in Jefferson Parish are set at a rate of time so that passenger vehicles can safely maneuver through intersections. The Engineering Department is said to have also acknowledge that red lights pre set time rate does not take larger vehicles such as fire trucks into account.
At the current rate of time allowed for red lights to change in every scenario including fire trucks driving slowly, a condition can arise where it would be unsafe for a fire truck to pass through the light safely because of weight and length of the truck according to IFSTA training manuals. (IFSTA is the company that writes the books firefighters in Jefferson Parish are trained from).
This issue could be avoided by simply having Jefferson Parish's Traffic Engineering Division increase the rate of time it takes for a light to change from green to red by a few seconds according to the fire truck specifications that are designed at the request of parish administration. Instead this issue has been ignored while firefighters are being forced to pay tickets under the threat of disciplinary action because the light's camera activates as the rear of the truck is passing through the light when it changed. This happens even though the driver is driving the truck according to the guidelines in the IFSTA training manual in which they are trained from.
This is one of many examples of incompetence by uninformed administrators because of their refusal to acknowledge safety issues created by their failure to address firefighter and public safety. It is politically appointed Administrators that are charged with the responsibility to oversee certain departments with a complete lack of knowledge and refusal to listen to trained personnel that is creating these types of safety concerns. Firefighters exposing incompetence such as this has led to the retaliatory actions of the administration.

[Unregistered]

question then....

It is not Dave Saunders giving the firemen tickets but the JPSO. Someone has to pay the tickets if the JPSO issues them..right ? Same thing driving an ambulance or any other large vehicle. They are going to issue a ticket if the light changes red before the front of the vehicle enters the intersection if not on an emergency run.
Also isn't it the JPSO and a company representative that reviews the red light cams? So why can't the JPSO take into consideration the circumstances involved in the infraction since everyone is reviewed? The vehicle speed is also calculated so this could be a factor in voiding the ticket if firemen are so worried. SO talk to the people that issue the ticket. Why should Mr. saunders pay for the ticket that you got ?

[Unregistered]

Mr Saunders is Interim Fire Director, and he is the one that should address this problem with the JPSO. The problem is he doesn't understand the limitations. The reason they have not met with JPSO is because they don't know what it takes to stop the trucks. JPSO has been a friend to JPFD and have offered solutions to the radio problems firefighters are facing. Mr Bonano declined his offer for help. This is a sorry situation for the firefighters. They have to deal with these issues on their own.

[Jefferson Firefighters]

Guest,

Interim Director Saunders does not pay these tickets. The firefighters have been forced to pay them out of pocket. The firefighters now refuse to pay for them so the cost will ultimately be assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle or in this case the citizens of the East Bank Consolidated Fire Protection District.

Asking the sheriff to not issue a ticket would not only be unethical but would also be illegal. This would also not solve the problem of a fire truck (80500 lb ladder truck over 46 feet long) being able to safely pass through an intersection. If the light changes too fast for the truck to stop it would still be passing through the intersection with cars coming from an opposite direction that have the right of way (green light).

Because of the lack of knowledge, ability and their refusal to address these issues the administration has put public safety and firefighter safety at risk. This is one of many safety issues that firefighters made public after requests to amicably resolve these issues were ignored.

Firefighters are in a no win situation on this issue. If they stop according to the current red light time settings they have more than likely operated the fire truck in an unsafe manner according to the IFSTA training manual they are trained from and can be subjected to disciplinary action for driving unsafe. If they drive according to the manual and pass through the intersection and get a red light ticket then they not only have to pay the cost of the ticket but then are again subject to disciplinary action for running a red light and driving the fire truck unsafe. Firefighters have no control over Jefferson Parish's Traffic Engineering division.

This scenario exists at normal operating speeds. As said before even if the truck is driven at a slower rate this issue will still exist depending on how close the truck is to the light when it changes. Oddly enough driving at a slower rate will also break another parish and state traffic law that says you cannot impede the normal flow of traffic.

The only reasonable answer to this issue is to simply extend the time it takes for red lights to change so that firefighters can operate the parish designed fire trucks safely through intersections. Firefighters have asked the administration to have their own traffic engineering division extend the time it takes for the lights to change so that the trucks they design can safely pass through the intersections and still comply with local and state traffic laws. So far these requests have been ignored.

This is just one of many other examples of the struggles firefighters have with the current administration on what should be fairly simple issues. The administration uses the same mindset on other issues such as hurricane preparedness.